ArtSpots Forum Topic - Vizon's Sketches

Vizon

Wed, 02 Jul 2008 17:31:05 -0000

More sketches from my Tuesday night class: And one painting:

Vizon

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:12:45 -0000

Amen to that, Metsys. All very good points. Perhaps I will bring my chalk pastels next time...but I will have to find different paper I think as they are rather messy. Ohhh I should scan in my zoo sketches I did with those pastels. What did I do with them? Hmm... Drrr...need a scanner though if I'm going to scan. Bah! *Note to self: BUY A FRIGGIN SCANNER already.

Metsys

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:10:02 -0000

There's several things that are good about forcing yourself to do studies with pen and ink: you have to start over if you mess up, which gives you more practice starting drawings; you realize that you messed up so you try to work with it, which spawns creativity and possibly very dynamic drawings by working within constraints; and you will not be committed to spending a lot of time on rendering and completing a messed up drawing that had a bad start, so you learn that art isn't sacred and not everything has to be finished or even look good. Also, using pen in a sketchbook is great because it's not messy and doesn't smear or get on my face if I wipe my forehead. :) Doing a bunch of quick ink sketches is also good because now you have a record of how you are improving. It's hard to look at a pencil drawing and tell if it took 10 minutes or an hour because 50 extra minutes were spent putting graphite down that got turned into eraser dust anyway. And when you have one of those ah-ha moments and nailed a drawing in the first try, you have a record of it and it feels really good to have proof. It's okay to have really crappy ink drawings. I often feel embarrassed when someone notices that I'm sketching and then asks to see my sketchbook because 90% of it isn't very good. Although, it usually works out because artists understand it and everyone else is easily impressed :). And the crappy drawings are okay because all I want to do is to train my eyes and hands to see proportions and draw intuitively, and I can't do that well if I'm spending too much time correcting myself or noodling away at the details. I'll hold my drawing up, look at what I did wrong, take mental notes, and draw again. Rendering is easy. Measuring, plum lines, transferring angles, that's easy too. Getting it right quickly just by looking takes practice, so why bother with erasing and rendering when you are trying to learn how to draw it right the first time? It's also a good habit to try things you haven't done before or are still not good at. When I took figure drawing back in college our instructor made us start using pastels, which compared to a pencil or a Conté was like drawing with a rock, and I didn't like it. However, as soon as I started using it, the accuracy of my figure studies jumped significantly, probably because I had to think differently and that triggered a way of looking at objects that has helped me draw from then on. Limitations are good. Experimenting with different media is good. It spawns new ideas, exercises your mind and opens up new ways of thinking that—for all you know—will end up being one of those treasured bits of understanding that will make you a significantly better artist.

Boxcutter

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:52:31 -0000

Vizon said: I'm somewhat hesitant to recommend this since it's a bit more risqué than I'm comfortable with, but Dr. Sketchy's is in St. Louis too, it seems. Here is a link: http://www.myspace.com/drsketchystl (Warning - this is not so much a "class" as an informal artistic gathering) EDIT: Oh nevermind. They have it on Saturday. It's Sunday evenings here in KC.

I'm looking into that. If I'm not mistaken it's at a place called the Atomic Cowboy, which also happens to be a resturant. Food and art, my kind of scene. With a $5 admission it doesn't hurt too much to at least take a peek. As for drawing with a ball point... I used to do that, mostly because it was cheaper to swipe writing utensils from school than to buy my own. A few times I would draw with just ink but everytime I mess up I always felt the urge to erase even though I couldn't. So I stuck with pencils. I've always had the mindset of working a drawing until it looked right. And if it couldn't, only then will I start over. If those drawings are just one go, then I've got a lot to learn.

Vizon

Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:03:00 -0000

Had another class last night - but this time at least there was a model and I didn't have to draw another still life (yay!). I brought a small sketchbook and a ballpoint pen. Mostly because I need to teach myself how to draw without fear of mistakes. Using a pen helps me to not rely on an eraser and getting things just right. I simply sketch lightly and then when I'm happy with a shape or line I draw it a little darker. Also in using ink, my basic gesture sketch is still visible, even in a 20-minute-long sketch. Here are the results - I think my gestures are getting looser and more natural (less like a stick-man). Drawing people with clothes is interesting. Stripes really help my brain to see the 3d shapes too (stripes on the man's shirt). It also helps me with understanding material and wrinkles and folds more. I did a few blind contour drawings and some quick sketches of some people around me, but I didn't scan those since it took long enough to scan these. I really need to get my own scanner at home. I keep saying that, don't I?

Vizon

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:35:49 -0000

Boxcutter said: I've thought about talking an art class before. But there's that whole matter of finding time and whatnot. I mostly want to learn, relearn , an unlearn a bunch of things. The problem with being self taught is there might be better, easier ways of doing the same thing you're doing now. One thing I really what to tackle is improving anatomy. I might consider finding a local place thats open Sudays, my only day off.

I'm somewhat hesitant to recommend this since it's a bit more risqué than I'm comfortable with, but Dr. Sketchy's is in St. Louis too, it seems. Here is a link: http://www.myspace.com/drsketchystl (Warning - this is not so much a "class" as an informal artistic gathering) EDIT: Oh nevermind. They have it on Saturday. It's Sunday evenings here in KC.

Boxcutter

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:28:05 -0000

I've thought about talking an art class before. But there's that whole matter of finding time and whatnot. I mostly want to learn, relearn , an unlearn a bunch of things. The problem with being self taught is there might be better, easier ways of doing the same thing you're doing now. One thing I really what to tackle is improving anatomy. I might consider finding a local place thats open Sudays, my only day off.

Vizon

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:37:38 -0000

KoOkY! said: You're still taking art classes Vizon, or this was kinda one-shot deal? There's a semi-local place that's been holding life drawing sessions too that I should try to hit, though have them on Mondays which is a pain. :P But anyway, still lifes (lives?) are great practice, should embrace them more. :D I dunno though, little too much life in your still life there. ;)

Oh I take them whenever I get the chance. Good practice and motivation. After all, I'd never sit at home and draw fruit for hours, but with 10 or 15 other artists around me doing it, it's easier to sit my butt down and be more disciplined. Also I look for any chance to practice gestures and the human body. This is a very informal class - just something a local church put together that's gonna last 7 weeks. Three people who work for Hallmark have spearheaded the event and the teacher went to Ringling. So I should be able to get something good out of it.

KoOkY!

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:06:18 -0000

You're still taking art classes Vizon, or this was kinda one-shot deal? There's a semi-local place that's been holding life drawing sessions too that I should try to hit, though have them on Mondays which is a pain. :P But anyway, still lifes (lives?) are great practice, should embrace them more. :D I dunno though, little too much life in your still life there. ;)

Vizon

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:08:18 -0000

Went to an art class thing last night and had to draw a still life. Meh. Not my favorite thing to do. I tried to make it more interesting.

Vizon

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 22:29:37 -0000

This sounds like a great topic for the Artistic Dialogue forum - I bet there are others who would like to read about these shortcuts and hot key methods too.

Metsys

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:49:24 -0000

If something doesn't have a keyboard shortcut for it you can make one: Edit > Keyboard Shortcuts. And if you want to record a set of actions or if you want to activate a filter with preset parameters you can use Photoshop's Actions which are really easy to make. Out of curiosity I compiled a list of all the keys and shortcuts that I use: Space, Alt, Ctrl, Shift, B, E, M, Q, T, [, ], O, V, Undo, Redo, Copy, Paste, Crtl-U, Ctrl-L, Ctrl-I (rarely, when doing masks), Ctrl-E, Ctrl-T, Ctrl-S, and F5. That's 24 things and the Nostromo has 20 buttons (there are gamepads that have more buttons too). That's not bad, and I can move a few of those the the Actions panel or just use the toolbox. Everything else I use the menus for anyway. That would actually be pretty nice because then I can keep my keyboard in Dvorak, instead of switching to QWERTY for shortcuts and then back to Dvorak for typing text. I actually tried to change the Photoshop shortcuts so they would be in their native positions on the keyboard but work in the Dvorak layout. Unfortunately there's a weird restriction that the tool shortcuts must be letters A-Z, so pressing "'" in Dvorak in place of "Q" isn't possible. Grrr. So using a gamepad might actually be a good idea for me. I'll still need a keyboard within reach though, and that would be tricky finding a place for it on my crowded desk. Another possibility is to continue to use a keyboard but use AutoHotkey to remap the keys, so I can configure it like a gamepad, and bypass the Photoshop keymaping stupidity.

Boxcutter

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:00:05 -0000

Before I got the n52 I did use a keyboard for shortcuts, and it worked. But two things made me reconsider it. Modifier keys, like saving or undoing, needs two keys. Second was having to move my arm around the keyboard. Since I can't type to save my life I must look at the keyboard to see what letter to type. I wanted something that would let me execute commands without moving my hand much and without pressing two or more keys to do one task. The whole idea for my was so that I would never take my eyes off the drawing nor need to use the menus or toolbars on the screen. The thing is you don't need to know how to type to use it. Because all of the keys are cosolidated into the space of your hand, it becomes a matter of what finger does so-in-so command. It eventually becomes subconscious. There is the problem of needing to actually type stuff, which haveing a real keyboard is handy. For me, since use a TabletPC, the kind that looks like a laptop, but the screen twists around and folds down so that all you see is the screen. If I need to type something I just lift the screen and use the keyboard. So if you need to type a lot a keyboard would be fine. Another thing is the intial setup, and the tweaking will eat up some of your time. I've only heard of ArtRage, I've never used it, though the price sounds right, $25. The thing with Photoshop and shortcuts is that there isn't enough shortcuts. There are some thing I want to control, like changing colors and filters, that have no keyboard shortcut. So I still need a few toolbars on the screen. Most TabletPCs do use Wacom tech. And most of them detects pressure out of the box. But a few use different tech. The new HP models use touch, that is, you can operate it with your finger instead of a stylus. But that would suck for anything, but finger painting. My Gateway, and a few others use a tech called FinePoint, a sort of generic Wacom deal. Not compatable with Wacom styluses, and cost a bit more. It's what I get for buying a cheap ($1000) TabletPC. The 12" Cintiq came out like a year after I bought my machine. If I have the choice I would have bought that. Mostly because I can plug it into my Mac, which I'd rather be using.

Metsys

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 08:21:01 -0000

Interesting. I haven't heard of artists using a gamepad for keyboard shortcuts. I was planning on getting a small laptop-sized keyboard when I get the new 12" Cintiq so I could use that for keyboard shortcuts. Currently I put the tablet in my lap because I like drawing on an incline, but for the Cintiq I'll want it on my desk so I'll need something smaller than my monstrous ergonomic keyboard. The gamepad would save a lot of space, but I still want a keyboard for typing the name of layers or the many shortcuts I need to use for tools, macros and color filters. I've thought about using a Frog Pad or something similar, but I've already learned Dvorak and going through that again is something I don't look forward to (I am a very happy Dvorak typist though). I'll probably go ahead and get the mini keyboard and if that doesn't do it for me I'll try out the gamepad. Hehe, oddly enough my dependence on keyboard shortcuts is part of the reason why I've been doing half of my sketches in Photoshop and the other half in ArtRage. I like working with ArtRage because the interface is so simple (limited?) that there's really no need to use shortcuts. The ability to move the canvas by using the right-click instead of the space bar is a big perk. But still for anything serious I have to use Photoshop. As for the pressure sensitivity thing I think your tablet PC actually uses Wacom technology (most of them do). From what I understand you need to get a Wacom pen that detects pressure, install the Wacom drivers and it should work.

Boxcutter

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:14:32 -0000

Yeah, that tablet broke like 3 years ago. It's been sitting on my shelf for so long I decided to crack it open to see what made it tick. It just made me wonder, why did I spend $100 on this? So I spent $1000 on a new tabletPC. As for pressure sensitivity, it was nice when it worked, but I've managed without it. I don't do much with varying line widths. When I ink in paper or the computer, I usually use the width of the pen or draw over that to double the width. But I hadn't thought about using pressure sensitivity to draw fur. As for the Nostromo (I have the n52 not the n51 like I said before), I would recommend it whether you use a plain Wacom, a Cintiq, or even just a mouse. I've gotten so accustomed to it it feels like a phantom limb when I'm drawing on paper. And the thing about it, is I'm always looking for newer and better devices that will let me to even more. http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&q=%22midi%20control%20surface%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi Google "midi control surface", that'll show you how much I'm into these things.

KoOkY!

Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:31:19 -0000

Great! Thanks for sharing those Vizon, they did come out wonderful for 60 second sketches. You saw the messes that were my 60-second figure drawings. Hehe. Post up your 5 and 10 minute ones too if you want to, would love to see how those came out. I know few people do those 30 or 60-second sketches with a wacom too, if anything else I think just to save on paper. Hehe.

Vizon

Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:43:48 -0000

Oh man. I can't stand it when my pressure sensitivity doesn't work. It takes so much longer to do thick-thin strokes and to make a line narrow smoothly you have to draw it chunky first and then go back with an eraser and trim it down. More work than just drawing it once. If I didn't have sensitivity I'd probably draw all my outlines by hand and scan them in first (if I wanted outlines) and only use Photoshop for coloring. I'd utilize the opacity a lot more (since just drawing more lightly won't make your color lighter), and...wow fur would be next to impossible... I depend on pressure sensitivity for any fur effects I do because all fur naturally tapers to a fine point. What's wrong with your Wacom tablet? It just stopped working for no reason? Can't you send it back in and get it fixed/replaced? That's an expensive tool to toss. Your Belkin Nostromo dealy sounds really handy! Like hot keys all on one device. Nice.

Boxcutter

Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:24:08 -0000

Although I do own a Wacom tablet, it's no longer working. I'm now using my Gateway TabletPC so I can draw directly on the screen. It's cheaper than a $2000 Wacom Cintiq screen. But the Gateway doesn't have presure sensitively or an eraser nub. The set up that I have and constantly tweaking revolves around me not thinking about the tools, that is the menus and tool bar and other on screen elements. To be able to draw with nothing on the screen but the drawing. I have this little gizmo call the Belkin Nostromo n51. It was made primarily for games but it can be programmed for Photoshop. The idea is that most of my attention is on drawing with my right hand and my left hand is on the n51. If I need the brush, it's index finger. Eraser, on middle. Undo is pinky. My thumb controls the zooming and panning. I haven't drawn on it in a while, I'm still working on that portrait.

Vizon

Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:16:26 -0000

Thanks you two. Maybe I'll post some of my five and ten minute sketches as well to show what I can do given additional minutes. :) Boxcutter - maybe this is something you should try then. Never say never! It took me a while to get used to my Wacom tablet, but once I did, it was actually really easy (especially if you put a piece of cardstock over the tablet so the surface is not all slick and slippery). Here's a question for you - do you look at your mouse when you're doing things on the screen with it? No. Think of a stylus as a really sophisticated mouse, that's all. I think because we hold it like a pencil and use a "tablet" instead of just a mouse pad next to the keyboard, we want to treat it like a pencil and paper. Sure it has the same qualities (pressure sensitivity, a pencil shape) but if you can move your cursor around the screen without looking at where your mouse is on your mousepad, you should be able to do the same with a stylus/tablet. It just takes a little getting used to what fine and accurate control you have (compared to the mouse). It may feel like you're drawing blind at first, but once you realize that the screen shows you exactly where you're at and whether you are touching the stylus to the tablet or not, your brain makes the jump from staring down at what you're doing to looking up at what you're doing. Blind drawing is much more difficult because you don't have a screen that shows you what you are doing and you can't look down at what you're drawing either. It's simply an exercise to strengthen that eye-to-hand connection. Feel where your pencil is going and imagine what it's doing. Focus on where your eye is traveling and mimic that with your hand. Perfection and accuracy are hardly the purpose of gestures OR blind drawings - it's more getting an impression of a figure or impressions of the curves you see before you. It's experimental and fun - not something to stress over. In fact, if you practice and you hate what you did, just wad it up and throw it away. It's the loosest, most relaxing way to draw - and it can be just for you and no one else if you want.

WolfReign05

Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:42:27 -0000

those are really nice Vizon. So that blind drawing is pretty much contour drawing. Those are pretty cool to do. :D