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Beware New Micron Pens

Sakura has apparently changed the formula on their Pigma Micron pens. I've been using these pens for years, and recently had to buy replacements. The replacement pens, though, are smudging SEVERELY when used with markers, and I've checked with other artists and they have had similar problems. Apparently Sakura has changed to a cheaper ink solution without lowering the cost of their pens.

Since I can't trust my "trusty" ol' Microns anymore, does anyone have any suggestions for a better brand of technical pens? I need something that won't smudge or bleed when used with markers, and draws smooth even lines.

I'm a big fan of Copic Multiliner SPs. The tip is replaceable, and it's refillable. It costs more than the average pen, and doesn't make much sense when it comes to the replaceable parts (since a typical disposable pen costs the same as the replacement parts - I like it on principle :P). Though, I use it with watercolors so I can't vouch for the marker part. I imagine since they're made by Copic that shouldn't be a problem.

That's too bad :\ Reminds me of when Prismacolor pencils became so waxy..
An alternative would be the Copic Multiliners that Kitsumi mentioned, and I can vouch that they work excellently with markers. Staedtler felt-tipped pens and Faber-Castell felt-tipped pens work quite well, as well, and aren't as expensive or hard to find as the Copics are, depending on where you live.

Well this blows. You know, I noticed this problem this last Califur. When I'd ink something and then erase my pencil lines I found everything smudged! And you can forget about using marker over it..same problem :( I thought maybe I was doing something wrong, but this makes total sense now. I guess I'm gonna have to grab myself some Copics. Argh. I hate buying new pens.

I'll keep my microns for things I'm not spending much time on but the smudging factor was really noticeable :( Thanks for the heads up!

PITT artist pens are the only thing I ink with anymore... they are wonderful, both alchohol-resistant and waterproof. Their brush pens make inking a snap, and look good too.

*gets handed a fiver from the PITT corporation*

I love the PITT artist pens but I wish they were more permanent - as in offered refills/nub replacement. I end up using a full pen per piece I do, sometimes two (especially with the thicker lined tribal pieces) so I've had to ditch them. : /

Itoya makes pigment pens in similar sizes, and with similar ink to what is now apparently the 'old' micron. (Time for some angry letters to corporate heads. Anyone?) Lately I stick with a Zig Writer pen for most of my fine-line work; the ink is pigmented and doesn't smudge under marker or watercolor, and the tips are this awesome space-age plastic stuff that doesn't fray, rip or get jammed in like Microns could. Plus Zigs are double-ended, with a nice fat tip for fill work as well. It's comparable to a large-tip sharpie in feel, if sharpies had pigment ink!

i used to use microns way back when (they were then only art pen of its kind in aaron brothers at the time). curiosity brought about pens like zig millenniums, pitt, and finally, my pen of choice, stedtler pigment liners. when i first tried them i loved them, but they weren't widely available. now i think you can get a set of four at major office supply stores, as well as art stores (they come in those extra small sizes too). they're comparable to microns in size and pen type, but they are quite durable, dark, and permanent. once dry, i erase and watercolor over like crazy with minimal fading and no smudging.

actually...if you're willing to spend a little extra and take a little more care, Rapidograph pens are pretty darn awesome. You've just gotta remember to always store them tip-up.
I paid about $60 for a set of 7 pens and a bottle of ink, plus about $10 for the cleaning set, at the UC Davis bookstore.

on the other hand, there are those who will swear by old-fashioned dip pens.
I'm one of those. For inking at your desk, there's nothing better than a dip pen and a bottle of India ink. For on the road...not so much. Oh, and NEVER let anyone else use your nibs once you've gotten them broken in: they probably don't hold the pen the same way you do, and they'll wear the pen down a different way.
And for those of you who, like myself, are southpaws, you don't really need to bother with "left-handed" nibs. I've bought them, but don't really see the point (lol). It's just a matter of holding a "normal" nib in just the right way so it doesn't spatter.

Also, if anyone's interested, the afore-mentioned bookstore completely got rid of its ENTIRE nib'd pen section...and gave them all to me! So, if anyfur would like a nib or two from the fine Speedball collection, send me an e-mail with your snail-mail address and which nib(s) you'd like me to send. There's no way I'd ever be able to use them all. tymonardo@gmail.com

I've never used these pens. Are they one-shot, or can you refill them with another brand of ink?

If you can refill it, one ink I've used in my fountain pens (yes...I use fountain pens to write) is "Skript" brand; used in Shaffeer pens.

** A word of caution** This ink is water based and will run if it gets wet.

That's the best I can offer in suggestions.

** A word of caution** This ink is water based and will run if it gets wet.

Those kinds of pens are fun when you take advantage of that fact. :)

Rapidograph pens are indeed very high quality, but I wouldn't really consider them as a substitute for Microns or other similar, soft/felt tipped pens, as the metal nibs on the Rapidographs feel entirely different to ink with. You can't taper/feather quite the same way as with Micron type pens. Extremely good pens, nonetheless.

But the ink that comes in the Rapidograph kits is phenomonal--it stays pitch black, even after erasing.

And I have to agree with not letting anyone touch your Rapidographs. I was using several and had them on my desk at school, and a fellow student came by and without asking tried to un-cap one, not realizing that to un-cap a Rapidograph, you have to twist the cap like a screw.. Needless to say, she managed to break the pen, which did not make me very happy :<

I fell out of using the Rapidographs because of the maintenance needed, and because I couldn't use them as a complete substitute for soft-tipped pens. I still occassionally use the ink with a brush for inking, however.

Here is an example of the sort of insane detail you can get with a very fine nib Rapidograph (unfortunately, I no longer have any files that are closer-up of this picture..but I did every one of those scales one by one, and did much of the stippling with the smallest nib Rapidograph offers).

Microns always smudged a little after they were freshly layed. I haven't noticed any difference in the degree of the smudging lately, and I've used Microns for years.

The only thing I've switched off micron to a different brand for are the brush pens. I've found that the Faber-Castell ones are sturdier and hold a more controlled stroke than the microns do, and their tip resists splitting and fraying more (my #1 pet peeve with pens). And if there's any difference in ink quality, it's that the Faber-Castell pens fade a tiny bit more than the Microns when I go over my drawings with an eraser to lift up the pencil sketch underneath

And while they're great pens and I've seen people do awesome stuff with 'em, I just can't stand Radiograph pens myself. I need some degree of "give" in my ink pens so I tend to prefer felt tips as opposed to the rollerball tip the radiograph pens have. Still, if you do precision work and like having those hard lines, they are possibly the best pens you can get.

I use Copic multiliners (The old set, I haven't tried the new ones with the replaceable nibs yet) and they're downright awesome. After you let them dry, they only fade a little with repeated erasings, and work well with markers (Both prismas and copics). Can't say much on watercolors, because I use primarily markers to ... mark up my paper.

Hmmm... that's not good that it smudges. I'm trying to find a good pen now that I want to start getting back into traditional media.

I'll probably be digging out a few I bought before so I'll suggest a brand if I find it good.

Thanks for the heads up on the Micron pens. They have always been my preferred brand of line pens, but I haven't used them very much recently, and thus haven't needed to replace them for a while. It would have been thoroughly upsetting to buy a replacement set and finish the linework on some complicated piece of knotwork, only to have it bleed when I applied markers. My sympathies that they bled out on you.

Thanks for the info, I had been using Microns and I loved them and mine were starting to run out and I was starting to shop around again. Now I'll have to do some more research on them and come up with a solution that works best for me. :)

I don't know if anyone's mentioned these or not, but Staedtler Pigment liners were introduced to me by a friend a couple years ago and I haven't touched a micron since.

They have a lot of similarities, but the biggest differences I've noticed are that the tip rarely if ever splits the way microns did -all the time-. The Staedtler pens have a thicker ink, too, which doesn't bleed at all (you know, when you used the super fine .005 micron for a tiny detail and then it spread out and looked junky?)- so the smallest size, 01, actually draws a finer line than the .005 micron.

I don't really ink stuff anymore, but if you're looking for a replacement for microns, that's my #1 recommendation. You can find them in office supply stores in the architectural rendering section in a pack of four for about $10, comparable in price to microns, and they last a lot longer, too.

I've also tried Copic Multiliners (very good, but at about $6 each, dunno if it's worth it) and Pitt artist pens, which are pretty good, but I just can't get the effect I'm usually looking for with them. (on the other hand, pitt brushpens are pretty nice, I wholeheartedly recommend those.)

Hope that helps.

I use the Staedtler pigment pens as well, have been for about four years now. The only problem I ever had with them is once I dropped the 01 pen on its tip and it got pushed in, meaning I had to hold the pen directly vertical in order to use it. :p

But anyway...the Staedtler pens feel a lot 'drier' to me than other pens. They dry quickly, which is good because I have a horrible habit of smudging everything I come into contact with.

hmmm, I just bought some new Microns and haven't noticed any problems... and I've been using them with both watercolor and marker. Perhaps the ones I got are still part of the "older generation" and don't have the new formula in them. I like this thread though- if I do ever have that problem with Microns, now I know where to go for pen recommendations!