ArtSpots Forum Group - Artistic Dialogue

Too much for the PG-13 rating? - bluebengal

Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:59:12 -0000

I'd say it's a lot about body language. If it's meaning to be sexualized or particular areas are accentuated for purposes of getting someone to have sexual feelings for the picture then yeah it would be more than PG-13. Nudity in and of itself I'd say would be PG-13, I've seen some tasteful ie artistic nude, and just silly pictures of nude anthros. I'd say if nipples (for sexual purposes) or genitalia are being exposed or implied while the character is nude then it is too much for a PG-13 rating. I'd say this pic is very cute and light hearted. Nudity is perfectly fine here.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kynliod

Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:56:03 -0000

Thank you, guys--it's all fantastic advice, especially the advice about looking at real live skeletons as opposed to just photos--thanks for that, I hadn't actually considered it. Fru, don't feel bad, your advice was very well founded, and life drawing is something I need to do more of. I need to figure out a way to work that into my schedule. Kaio, thanks for the links--very handy stuff! I'd like to add pocket references to my collection, that would be most convenient. To everyone who took the time to comment, thank you so so very much--I need to take notes on this stuff and start applying it, it's fantastic advice.

Easy Paint Tool SAI Users, What can you tel me about it? - Scott Ruggels

Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:30:26 -0000

just installed it and have play around producing this:
Now it took a long time to do, but the results were similar to what I would produce using traditional Inks. I have no clue abut the color tools and other features, What sort of suggestiosn can you SAI users give to me about the tool? Scott

Too much for the PG-13 rating? - wolico

Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:55:52 -0000

yeah i agree its more like an artistick nude so theres nothing wrong with it i have drawn artistic nudes before(sunndently cant find em)and your pic remindes me of mine but mine are people....its not like its porno...lol jk jk

My art teacher said... - Zenit Yerkes

Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:11:52 -0000

I didn't expect anybody else to continue the topic, sooo thanks .w. I recently read a book about drawing, and said: "Only three things to draw like a pro: constancy, practice and more practice. The rest it's about time" So, there I go!

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kaio

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:06:17 -0000

For just such purposes as sub-dermal anatomical studies, I picked up some pocket-sized (4x6") Quick Study guides for the muscular and skeletal systems from my school's bookstore; I keep them in the folder pockets of my sketchbook for a quick reference. They're made for students taking anatomy courses, so the illustrations are scientifically accurate and everything's labeled. If the pocket-size is too small for you, the company also makes full-sized study guides that go into more detail. Pocket-size . . . Skeletal system: http://www.barcharts.com/Inventory/Navision/9781572227620 Muscular system: http://www.barcharts.com/Inventory/Navision/9781572227606 Full-size . . . Skeletal system: http://www.barcharts.com/Inventory/Navision/9781572224957 Muscular system: http://www.barcharts.com/Inventory/Navision/9781572224971

My art teacher said... - Pac

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:16:33 -0000

my profs called my work "toony" or "animated" too! :) i don't think it's a bad thing and i don't think it spurred from the "style" i was using necessarily. since a lot of my work revolves around story telling (and the topic i enjoy portraying the most is animals and the anthropomorphism of animals) my work always seemed to have an air of expression. when i drew a dog, i tended to give it more personality and human like qualities, even when it was drawn "realistically" and without intent to be anthropomorphic. it didn't mean the work was bad or wrong; it was merely a characteristic i instilled on a lot of my work. i don't know what the intent of the comment was, but i've noticed from all my art teachers that blunt and honest comments are not necessarily meant to discourage you, but just to make you "see" or "realize" something you might otherwise not just coasting through your own artistic life. the best thing i got from art school is not just to learn to take criticism, but to selectively apply the suggestions and critiques. just because someone says your art is one thing doesn't mean you have to use every suggestion, even if it's from your professor. no one has control over your work other than you. :) that being said, i guess what i'm getting at is let your art aspire to be what you want it to be, not because someone said it's too toony. diversifying your artistic prowess is always a good thing, but again, do it for the sake of your art and not for the sake of proving a teacher wrong.

My art teacher said... - Celty

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:18:01 -0000

As WolfReign already said, it's all about practice and drawing from real life. Studying the style of artists you admire helps a lot, too. While I'm not about to put down all art teachers, some of their comments need to be taken with a huge grain of salt; I was once told by a local college art teacher that my art was immature and that essentailly I'd never get into college with it. The following year I got accepted into a fairly selective art college, but was so put off by her remark that I almost didn't bother applying. Although she also told me I should do more things like paint with sticks, which probably should have tipped me off. So I sympathise, but just keep practicing and you'll see your art improve :]

My art teacher said... - Zenit Yerkes

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:08:17 -0000

WolfReign: Why yes, but I think my style needs to be polished up; as you can see it's not perfect (or realisitic) and I really want to take the most of my holiday time drawing and improving. Bug: Thanks for the enthusiastic comment! I'll take a look at the books you brought, sure they help. Nimblebun: My teacher isn't a bastard, it just makes comments about what I draw. Some are fair and some not, but this one really made me think. And as said before, improving won't hurt. Also, following your advice, I think asking for critique here would help too. Scottie (yes, Scottie! XD): Well, thanks for the comment! I'm sure looking at artists I admire will help, so there I go! BTW, I specially love three: Albrecht Dührer, Hugo Pratt and BNG (this one is on fA). Thanks for the comments! Really helped me a lot, you don't know how grateful I am. I would hug you all <3 BTW I'm not obsessed to draw photo-perfect, just think I need to draw better and improve some points.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Fru

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:32:57 -0000

Woops, I didn't read it all the way through I guess! Sorry about that :P~ Good luck with finding info in that department, I'm not really sure where one would go about finding that ...

My art teacher said... - UndyingSong

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:25:47 -0000

Er, huh? XD But the question I asked was about something you said specifically. You said that "they associate good technique with art" and then you said, "the two aren't related" - I am just trying to say that great technique and art actually are related. XD Unless I somehow misunderstood what you were trying to say. If that is the case, I apologize. ^^;

My art teacher said... - Nimblebun

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:05:35 -0000

UndyingSong said:
Nimblebun said:
btw. i've learned that for some odd reason, they associate great technique with art......the two aren't related XD

Meep! I'm confused... How is it that art is not related to great technique? It is important to have good technique with what you create.

direct your confusion to my wack-o foundation art teachers :P

My art teacher said... - UndyingSong

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:53:08 -0000

Nimblebun said:
btw. i've learned that for some odd reason, they associate great technique with art......the two aren't related XD

Meep! I'm confused... How is it that art is not related to great technique? It is important to have good technique with what you create.

My art teacher said... - Scotland Sky

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:49:07 -0000

Disney's art style is a bit "toonish" but I still think they draw amazing people. Sometimes I like simple, and sometimes I love sitting for a while and working on something realistic. But, I agree with Nimblebun. I think Artspots and DA (Deviant Art) would help you a LOT. I've found that if I hang around with artists and look at art that's better than mine, I get better. If you hang around people that can't draw, all that does is make you get a big head and you don’t improve. xD Look at really good art and learn from that. Pay attention to the good artist and their styles. That'll help you. Well... It did with me. XD Good luck!

My art teacher said... - Nimblebun

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:07:34 -0000

all art teachers lay it out bluntly to you. They were always blunt with me: "I dont know where you're going as an artist" take their opinion with a grain of salt. I have yet to come across a foundation art teacher who actually gave me great advice. I think you can get more help artistically speaking from ArtSpots btw. i've learned that for some odd reason, they associate great technique with art......the two aren't related XD

My art teacher said... - Bug

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:08:02 -0000

I wouldn't give it too much energy, nobody started out drawing photo-perfect! In art, you're always improving! I find that having a photograph and/or piece of very realistic art to look at while drawing is very helpful! While my art is nowhere near the top, and I enjoy cartoons myself, realistic art is definitely something to work for! From what I can see, you draw mostly anthro, while I cannot give much advice there, I can give some books on realistic animals, and, if you want, people. One book you won't find in the library is "The Artist's Guide to Drawing Realistic Animals" by Doug Lindstrand, his tutorials are easy to follow, and I've tried a few of them myself, such as this: http://kemuri.artspots.com/image/29474/warrior You can get it on Amazon if you're interested.^^ http://www.amazon.com/Artists-Guide-Drawing-Realistic-Animals/dp/1581807287/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245877268&sr=1-1 I also recommend "How to Draw Animals" by Jack Hamm, also available on Amazon and at various stores. =)

My art teacher said... - WolfReign05

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:26:30 -0000

It's really not that bad. All toons are is a representation of the real thing. With practice you can draw realistically. So just keep practicing and drawing from real life.

My art teacher said... - Zenit Yerkes

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:29:32 -0000

... I draw toonish. Of course for you this won't mean anything and you'll say "Man, make a topic for this is to waste time". But for me it really means a lot. To say "I draw toonish" is to say all my efforts to make my drawings as real as possible didn't existed. And that hurts. Specially when it comes from the teacher's mouth. My aim for the next month, using my spare time this holidays, is to change that, and add realism to my drawings as much as I'm able to. I'd thank if somebody could lend me a hand at this, putting some tutorials or manuals. I'm currently taking a serious look at the Andrew Loomis books, suggested by Kynloid; and also will take a look at those which are in the "Library" tab. I also looked for a sketchbook and began to use it this evening. Help and comments will be welcome. Thanks, really: Zenit Yerkes

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Metsys

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:24:09 -0000

Yeah, those are good resources. Just be sure you find a way to look at actual skeletons in addition to an artists interpretation of the skeletons and muscles. If you are interested in doing animal anatomical studies, digimorph.org is a good place to find 3D scans of animal skeletons. Some natural history museums will be good too, something like the La Brea Tar Pits where they have tons of animal skeletons on display.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Muir

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:01:07 -0000

Honestly? The best way would be to try to get your hands on an old collage level human biology book. :P Online..there's lot of sites out there. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/ is half-way decent. :)

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kynliod

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:57:02 -0000

Thanks for all the life drawing advice, guys, it's good advice, but I guess I need to clarify that what I'm looking for is advice on how to learn the details of anatomy *under* the skin. Bone structure, muscle locations and names, etc.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Fru

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:05:23 -0000

Life drawing, life drawing. :B Everyone's doin' it! Yeah! There's a place in my city that does open life drawing sessions almost every day!! perhaps you can find something similar, or take a life drawing class, even. Any old person can go and sit down and draw the naked model. It's the best and fastest way to improve both proportion and anatomy, especially muscle detail and whatnot ... IMHO :3 *high-fives*

Learning Oils? - Fru

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:02:00 -0000

Heh, turpentine? I never used it! When I learned to paint with oils I used Windsor & Newton water-soluble oil paints. You don't need any kind of poisonous thinner or turpentine: all you need to do to make it thinner is either add water (hence water-soluble!) or use a medium. (Some mediums will also make it dry faster, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on what you're trying to do.) :)~ Much more easier! And then there's no bad stuff to dispose of ... the brand is really good too and won't separate. I would really get different brushes though, the oil paint I think will stain them pretty badly ... plus oil-specific brushes seem to have stiffer bristles, which is useful for the crazy impasto stuff. Fun times, fun times. :D That's all that comes to mind :P Good luck!

Learning Oils? - Saelyra

Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:51:00 -0000

Thank you for the advice :) Much appreciated! I'll have to get to trying this out soon.

Learning Oils? - UndyingSong

Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:33:22 -0000

Metsys said:
Turpentine counts as a toxic waste so you'll need to contact your recycling/waste management center for information on how to dispose or recycle it. One thing you can do to lengthen the life of your turpentine is to decant it. Pour your dirty turpentine (or safer non-smelly equivalent) into a glass jar, let it sit for a while so that the paint settles to the bottom, then carefully pour the cleaner turpentine into another glass jar, let that settle, and then pour that into another jar (not back into your fresh turpentine container) so you can use it again.

Use turpenoid, instead. :) Odorless, too!

Learning Oils? - Metsys

Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:00:20 -0000

That tutorial you linked is pretty good. Painting with thinned paints and then going thicker is the way to go. Hmm, I've used the same brushes for different mediums before, and I haven't seemed to have a problem with it so long as—as you said—it's cleaned thoroughly. But someone who has more experience with that would offer a better opinion. One thing I'll add though is that when you use thinners it sucks up the natural oils in the bristles, if you are using horse hair brushes, so every once in a while putting a little bit of oil back into the brush is a good idea. For synthetic bristles I don't think you have to worry about that. As for things not to do: Don't use cheap paints. It's not worth the alleged savings. Don't overwork your paintings. Paint background to foreground, thin to thick, less intense to more intense color. My oil paintings generally have 2 to 3 layers on it. The first layer is the underpainting which is done with thinned paints, the second layer has slightly thinned paints that I use to establish a base color for shadows and light areas, and then the last layer has straight from the tube paint to finish it up. If you put too many brush stokes on the same spot the colors will start to mix together, get muddy, and you'll loose the nice aesthetic of the brush work and it'll look smeary. Turpentine counts as a toxic waste so you'll need to contact your recycling/waste management center for information on how to dispose or recycle it. One thing you can do to lengthen the life of your turpentine is to decant it. Pour your dirty turpentine (or safer non-smelly equivalent) into a glass jar, let it sit for a while so that the paint settles to the bottom, then carefully pour the cleaner turpentine into another glass jar, let that settle, and then pour that into another jar (not back into your fresh turpentine container) so you can use it again.

Learning Oils? - Saelyra

Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:38:43 -0000

Hey folk. I'm looking for advice on starting oil paints... I've found a couple of pages on google, like this one, but I figured I would ask here as well since I always learn such good tidbits from this place :) Any certain things NOT to do? Should I avoid using the same brushes with this as with say my acrylics or watercolors, or will it be okay once cleaned? Also, how do I find where to get rid of the dirty turpentine(?)? As in, I'm sure I can find it on google for my city, im just not sure what terms to look for. Waste management? Trash depots? Anything would be great, I have never even opened these paints before :x

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kynliod

Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:01:18 -0000

Thank you guys, good advice!

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Zed

Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:20:38 -0000

Draw from life. I frequently make my husband pose for me so that I can get the angle just right and know what it is I'm supposed to be drawing. Barring someone willing to sit in their knickers, deviantART does actually have a really good stock section. Most of the artists just ask that you link back to them if you reference their stuff.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Rainblossom

Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:33:31 -0000

I really struggle with human anatomy (anatomy in general, actually) and over the past couple years of more serious art classes and now as I prepare to move on to art school I have found a couple of really invaluable resources. The first one is a tutorial by Tracy Butler that doesn't cover anatomy so much as using guidelines in a step-by step process to complete a drawing. Character Drawing I've also found that, despite the cost, a couple of good general anatomy books will be well worth the money you spend on them. I have a couple from the eighties, and though the photos aren't very good quality, they cover the skeleton and muscle groups extensively. Another book I've found helpful is Dynamic Anatomy by Burne Hogarth. It goes over all the muscle groups and portions of the body in great detail and even has a history section that takes about how the old masters used anatomy - there's quite a section on da Vinci's work. I'm sure there are plenty of other good anatomy books out there, and it never hurts to have a wise selection. Ebay should have plenty to chose from, but I like to buy books I can flip through before purchasing because I've had plenty of bad experiences with buying books that looked helpful and/or useful and turned out to be a waste of money. It's a good idea to see if a local book store has any good anatomy books and them buy them on Amazon or Ebay for a lot cheaper. I'm constantly using mine - I highlight and underline sections and scribble notes in the margins. A couple good anatomy books really would be an invaluable resource.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Scotland Sky

Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:12:22 -0000

Oh. xD I know what you mean. Occasionally I have to look back and see what human muscles and such look like. ^^

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kynliod

Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:45:06 -0000

Hehe, thank you, SS. No, I'm talking about studying anatomy very specifically. Studying the skeleton and muscles. I'm at a place where I think my lack of knowledge of these things is causing my art to suffer, and I'm hoping to benefit from the knowledge, but I was sorta struggling to figure everything out because the human body is so complicated. =P

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Scotland Sky

Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:23:41 -0000

I usually just start with circles and lines and squares and get more detailed... If fthat's what you wanted to know. xD

Wanted: Art Trades - Sudan Red

Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:35:35 -0000

I would also be interested. :) I need to get back into doing art more regularly!

Wanted: Art Trades - Zed

Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:09:10 -0000

I would love to do a trade! I've got a few things in my gallery thing if you wanna check out my style :D

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kynliod

Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:49:28 -0000

As usual, Metsys, you have helped a ton. Thank you bunches! If I have any more questions, I'll be sure to post them. Processing the info for now.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Metsys

Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:48:41 -0000

Oh, doing localized hand or foot studies are just fine. That's how the Structure of Man does it. It's just that after you've done all these foot, hand, clavicle, skull, whatever studies that you go in and try to apply it to a full figure. He refers to those drawings as milestones. For example after learning how to draw the femur from memory we drew what we knew of the skeleton but this time with the femur attached. That was the milestone. Do small studies of just one body part at different angles, just be sure that after you've done a bunch of these studies that you try and attach a hand to an arm, a foot to a leg, and see how it relates to the rest of the body and how naturally your new found knowledge applies. As for getting figure drawing practice in, photographs are a pretty good way to learn. Yes, many art instructors would tell me I'm wrong, but sometimes it's all you can do to learn depending on the circumstances. Just remember that because of how close a camera may be to a person (perspective distortion) and different kinds of lens distortion that what you are drawing may not be correct. A nose may be too big and the ears may be too small because of how close the camera is to a person. I like to use Corbis and Getty Images for finding things to sketch. There's tons of stock photos on there that you can search by keyword to find what you want to draw. The images aren't that big but artists are supposed to simplify the things they see anyway. I just download the preview image and scale it up so it fits my screen and then start drawing from that. Another good way to learn is to download some HD videos of the Summer Olympics and freeze frame people diving, gymnastics, beach volleyball, etc. so that you can see people in motion. Also just letting it play without freeze framing is a good way to get good at doing gesture drawings.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Kynliod

Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:17:14 -0000

Wow, Metsys, tons of info! Thank you! I've been eying that Structure of Man series, I'm getting closer to having enough money to buy it. What I meant about "working backwards" or whatever was that I would do detail studies--as in do a foot study, a hand study, an arm study, etc. etc. all separately--in an effort to understand the details before doing a full body study. But based on the information you provided, I see this wouldn't really be the best way to go about it. Any tips on drawing from life without getting out of my house? I can't drive (medical thing), and I have a small child here, so I'm pretty much home 85% of the time, and I never go out just to "hang out" places and watch people. Is it still beneficial to go as little as once every two weeks, or even once a month? I can't really walk places to do it because my three year old would keep me too busy to be able to draw anything, I would have to pick times where I could go by myself, and that's tricky. Anyway, thanks for all the info, much to process!

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Metsys

Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:48:47 -0000

I usually plug The Structure of Man (which now has a download option) whenever this topic comes up. He does an excellent job at teaching anatomy. I'd say go through that video series and then look at anatomy books and real skeletons because some of what he teaches is not quite right, so you'll have to make adjustments to the formulas he gives, but at least his method is the best I've ever seen. The way he does it is he starts out with a shorthand version of the body first, so you know how long each part of the body is. The proportions are mathematical formulas so it's easy to check them. Then he goes into drawing each bone, again providing the mathematical proportions, and when you are done you draw that on top of the skeleton you've already created. He'll do some 3/4 views of the bones too so you understand the 3D shape of it, which is really the goal anyway. After the skeleton is done he shows how each muscle connects to skeleton bone, and what happens to the muscles when the bones move. It's basically inventing the human body from scratch and memorizing how you build it. As for your question about how to assemble all of those parts together, the way I generally work is I do a gesture drawing (I'll explain this in a second because there's some confusion over the term), do a stick man for the joint locations and bone lengths, and then draw the skeleton on top of that. On a separate layer (you can use tracing paper if you want to go traditional) draw the muscles on top of the skeleton so they are connecting to where they should be. And doing the skin on that is pretty trivial. For me doing an anatomical study where you do the overall shape and working backwards to muscles and bones—which is what I think you meant by "details"—seems kind of backwards to me. What I will say though is that I think it's better to do some figure drawing from life and get to the point where you can draw what you see accurately first before you go into the crazy bone-by-bone anatomical study. The reason why is you really need to have obtained the artist's eye of being able to see angles and lengths accurately, because it'll help give you the drawing skill that will serve you in your anatomy study. I study anatomy so I can draw from memory, and I draw from life so I can draw faster and more accurately and make sure my anatomy knowledge is correct. Once you get good enough at drawing a character from memory, drawing the skeleton in different poses and from different angles and then putting the muscles on top of that, then you can start figuring out some kind of short hand for the body, like that mental mannequin that so many artists do so differently, either by using a skeleton shorthand, cylinders and spheres, bubbles, rectangles, etc. That's my main beef I have with those how-to-draw books is because they only teach you their short hand, not the knowledge that is backing up and informing their shorthand. I will add that its okay to use a short hand of the rib cage when learning. Draw the egg shape and then add the ribs on top of that. Okay, so gesture drawing. To me a gesture drawing is a super fast scribbly drawing that is used to figure out the story telling pose of a figure, that dynamic pose. When I'm drawing in public areas people don't stay still, so when someone is in motion and they do something dynamic, I have to scribble it out quickly to capture what it was I thought I saw, and more importantly how it felt. Often my gesture drawings consists of a scribbly stick man and then swirls for the mass. So to me a mental mannequin isn't really a gesture drawing. A refined stick figure is close, but since it's just the base of my mental mannequin and not a spur-of-the-moment sketch capturing body dynamics, it's not the same.

Struggling with anatomical studies--advice? - Celty

Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:58:51 -0000

You're welcome! And I meant a little of both..circle/box for the ribcage and pelvis, but swooshy lines for the limbs. Although I sort of neglected the former. If you end up getting longer periods of time to draw people, my last life drawing teacher always said to break the body down into six parts and spend a minute on each, initally. The head, the torso and then each of the limbs. From there you can refine as you see fit. I guess it's fairly specific to drawing in a class setting, but some people do occasionally stay put long enough on buses/subways/trains, etc.